Video Transcript (computer generated - may contain errors)

Sara Gentry: Hey, writers! I am so happy to welcome Erin Radnicky with me here today. Welcome, Erin.

Erin Radniecki: Hey, Sara! Thanks for having me.

Sara Gentry: Well, I'm so excited to have you here, because for those of you who don't know Erin, she is a nature lover and loves all things, writing about nature. So let me introduce people to you a bit more. I know you well, but others may not know you yet, so Erin is a nature enthusiast, writer and author, accelerator, certified book coach. She helps people who love books and nature, explore those passions through writing fiction. While Erin coaches writers of adult, young, adult and middle grade fiction. She has a soft spot for middle grade stories with animal Pov characters. When Erin isn't working you can find her gardening for pollinators in her backyard in Oregon's Willamette Valley. So I am just gonna put a plug in here for those of you who love, looking at nature and flowers and bees and bugs, and all the things. Erin has a fabulous Instagram account where she shares really lovely photos and videos of nature. And so you'll have to look up Erin Radniecki on Instagram. All right, Erin, let's dig into writing. I’m so happy to talk with you about this. It's not one of my personal strengths in writing at all. So I'm eager to hear what you have to say but maybe since you've mentioned middle grade and young adult in the things that you coach let's talk about kids for a minute writing nature for kids. What do you think it is about nature that speaks to kids? Why do there tend to be a lot of stories that feature nature prominently in the kidlet market?

Erin Radniecki (she/her): Sure. So I think that kids enjoy stories about nature for the same reasons that they enjoy nature itself. And that is because it's real, it's tangible. It's accessible to them. So nature stories they relate to things that kids can experience themselves. So maybe through reading, they experience a world that is new to them, or they see it in a different way. Then they can go outside, and they can find that that world out in reality. And so it's. It's just very tangible to them. That's my take on it.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, and there is. I mean, there's a lot to be said. I don't know all the science and all the data, but it seems I'm always seeing a new study about, you know, kids who play in nature, and kids who spend more of their time outdoors interacting with nature and various various different angles of the same thing. So it would make sense. I love this idea of it helping them feel more grounded. And I think that's lovely. Yeah.

Erin Radniecki: Yeah, I think it involves, you know, it helps them develop their curiosity and their love of exploration and learning through observation as opposed to learning in a classroom. So I think it really appeals to a lot of kids and adults, people of all ages. It's been shown to benefit from being outside in the natural world.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, love that. Okay? So since you do coach from young readers up through, up through adult readers. Maybe we could talk a little bit about how writing about nature might look different in some of those audiences, iff you're game for that. So maybe start with middle grade, like, how might we see nature showing up in a middle grade novel, for instance.

Erin Radniecki: Yeah, so, and I think I'll even divide a little further to young middle grade and old middle grade.

Sara Gentry: That's great!

Erin Radniecki (she/her): So the Younger Age group is at that stage. They are really learning about nature. They're learning about plants and animals and habitats and just being exposed to the crazy amount of diversity that we have on our planet. So I think because of that, they're interested in stories that are about habitats and creatures and kids making discoveries like they are learning about the world around them. So the evolution of Calpurnia Tate, by Jacqueline Kelly comes to mind. That's a young character who is kind of becoming aware of what's around her. Young readers are also open to suspending disbelief a bit more so. I think this is where we get some stories. With anthropomorphic characters, you know, that's another. You know, something I love. So basically kind of the big words in this age group, I think, are appreciation, discovery, and awe, just like, wow. And then, as kids get older kind of into the more upper middle grade. They are learning more about science and nature. They are more aware of the world around them, and start to become more aware of where humans and nature can sometimes kind of, but against each other we can have some friction. So I think you start to see more stories. Where readers are exposed to a little bit of that conflict, that real life conflict. And you'll get stories like the End of the Wild, by Nicole Helget. Where a community is experiencing some growing pains. When a fracking operation comes to town and brings both some positive and negative things. And a book that I've read recently that I enjoy was Haven. Jacob saves the planet by Barbara D. And so that one has a a main character dealing with some real physical symptoms of Eco anxiety, and then learning how to take action, how to inspire change, and really, what kinds of actions move the needle to help the things that she wants to improve. And so we get these stories that have a little bit more tension, a little bit more like it's it's not all sunshine and roses, but both of those books, and I think a lot of books do a great job of making it clear that there are no easy answers in in books with these kinds of plots where we're getting the the conflict of nature and and humans. These books are a great way to explore topics in a nuanced way because it can. They can tackle issues that have many points of view. Many sides. Things are not black and white. And as you get into this older Middle Grade age group, they're able to start to see fit that everything is not black and white in life. Great way to help them develop those thinking skills.

Sara Gentry: No, I love that. I I think, too, you mentioned like the environmental type of angles in the fiction. And I think, like, along with your adventurous nature, that you had mentioned earlier, we see some like every once while we'll see some survival stories, right like surviving the elements. Those always felt like those kids were much braver than I was. I remember thinking that when I was a young reader. 

Erin Radniecki: And I, yeah, I definitely think as we get into the older age groups, you get more of those serious plot lines. You get more of those elements of danger. So yeah, your epic survival stories. Or in like speculative fiction. There's the series, Life as we knew it by Susan Beth Pfeffer. So in that one the moon is knocked closer to the earth, which, like everything. So that one is kind of great because you're dealing with all these like climate change, but not climate change, but changes in our climate and in the way the world operates. But it's not, doesn't have that. That stress of like actual climate change. But it can still explore. How are people surviving. So yeah. And I think as you approach Ya and into the adult market, you get more dystopian stories. So again, more of that survival and danger. And and what if scenario. But I will say that is a trend for hopeful climate fiction. I don't believe that all nature fiction has to be climate fiction. I think we just see a lot of it. But there is a trend for hopeful climate fiction, and I think hopeful fiction in general involving nature. And so that's something that I'm happy to see. And I think.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, absolutely absolutely cause we if we don't want to freak people out, at least the young, at least the young ones. But yeah, it does seem like moving into ya, and then certainly into adult. It just seems like everything gets more extreme. Your your highs are more high, your lows are more low, and your stakes are perhaps perhaps bigger. But I love all of that so alright. So I've already mentioned that writing about nature is not one of my natural strengths at all. So for writers who are like me, who would like to develop skills in these areas, writing about nature. Do you have any tips for me, Erin?

Erin Radniecki: I do, Sara. So I've got 2 main tips. The first one is to start by deciding what is the role that you want nature to fill in your story like, what is the goal for including nature? It can. You can do many things for you. You can use it to ground of the reader in a sense of place. So really focusing on the setting, it can be plot elements. So stories directly involving nature in the plot. So like he, even Jacob, saves the planet. Things like that. It can help. You know, part of your main characters. Identity can be related to nature. So there's a book called Extraordinary Birds by Sandy Stark, Mcginnis, where the young, fairly young, probably young middle grade protagonist has dealt with some trauma in her life by leaning into the this idea that she's a bird. And so in that sense, nature is really part of her identity. And of course, nature can be used for symbolism to reinforce your the theme of your story. But being clear on what your purposes for including nature and your story can help you to be intentional about what to include rather than just filling your book with lots of descriptions of trees and and flowers and rivers, so really have in your mind. What is it that you want nature to be expressing or helping you with as you are writing your story? That's my first tip. The second is observation, of course, like anytime that you can go out and observe, and really immerse yourself in an environment is great, but do it in service to your characters. So what does nature tell you about your characters? Everyone could like you can take any any group of 100 people put them in a place out in nature, and they're all going to have different observations. They're all going to have different reactions, Sara, if you and I went out on a hike. We would be thinking and reacting in very different ways.

Sara Gentry: It's so funny. You say that because I was literally as you were talking about different perspectives. I was thinking the same thing I was like if I was with Erin while she is taking some of these nature photos that she takes, because I remember you've taken some photos of some very large spiders with some beautiful webs like, I will admit that there are lovely webs, but I see this big spider in the middle, and I'm like I would be walking in the other direction. And here Erin's getting in nice and close.

Erin Radniecki: As I can. Yeah. Well, you know I do zoom in quite a bit. I'm not right in their business. But yeah, so if we are 2 characters in a book, we're going to be reacting in very different ways. So if you are incorporating nature in your story, try and spend time in a setting that is kind of similar to where your characters are going to be, if you can and then start looking at what do you notice? What do you think as you're observing? But also, what would your characters notice. And what would they be thinking? And how would they be reacting? You know they could be. They could be in someone who hates being in nature. They could be someone who's like all, all in wanting to just like, dive in and and learn about it all. But those things can help illustrate who your character is right, and and maybe you have a character who loves all nature except this one part. Okay. Well, now, we want to know why not that one? Or maybe someone else really is kind of oblivious? They don't care about nature except for this one thing. Well, again, like that's this little curiosity seed of like, okay, well, what's that about? So nature can help us to see more deeply who your characters are? So that's that would be my tip if you're wanting to start to incorporate nature in your writing.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, I love how you talk about thinking about the role that nature can play. I think one thing that's really interesting about stories. That feature nature, in a prominent way, is you know, very easy to see that humans can't really control the weather like I can't. If there is like a hurricane coming towards my town on the coast, or something like I I can't stop that, you know. So so the stories kind of take a different shape, because you have to adapt to what's happening with nature. But you won't be able to tell Nature what to do.

Erin Radniecki: It's true. Yeah.

Sara Gentry: So I think that's kind of - I don't know just I think it gives them a different flavor, perhaps, than other stories where it feels like you are trying to control the outcome with nature. It feels like you just are. Gonna have to ride the wave. Perhaps you know. Super interesting.

Erin Radniecki: You can't. You can't manipulate your your other. If in another story you could maybe try and get your other characters to to be on your side, and you're not gonna be.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, that's well said, alright. So you know, writers. I've I've already said that if you are interested in writing stories, that feature nature in a prominent base. Certainly the anthropomorphic characters that we know. Erin loves those as well. She is just always sharing a lot of stuff, a lot of tips, helpful resources and whatnot that specifically talk about incorporating nature into your writing. So please go follow Erin on Instagram. And then, Erin, you also have a a newsletter that people can sign up for, and we'll have a link to that. But do you want to talk about the newsletter at all?

Erin Radniecki: Yeah. So I have a newsletter that goes out twice a month. It's called writing mighty, and I just would like to invite any nature lovers out there who, you know, are interested in including nature, in your writing and your creativity to to join. And I think that you're gonna be. I think that it will be a newsletter where you feel seen. And so if you if you appreciate nature and you want to give it some voice, please do join me, and I think you'll you'll find some good stuff.

Sara Gentry: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Erin, for joining me, and for this fabulous conversation.

Erin Radniecki: Thank you. Sara.

Sara Gentry: Alright writers. We will catch you next time. Bye.