Video Transcript (computer generated - may contain errors)

Sara Gentry: Hey, writers! Today I have Erin Michelle Gibes with me here. Welcome, Erin.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Thank you. Hi!

Sara Gentry: And I am so excited to talk with Erin today because she has this really cool perspective on writing and working with writers, which you're going to see here in a minute. But first let me introduce our writers to you a bit. Erin is a neurodiverse writer, editor, book, coach, and single parent. She started making books at age 4, and felt like Levar Burton on reading Rainbow, was her first real friend. In her work with neurodiverse writers, Erin creates tools and strategies unique to each individual that interrupt shame, cycles and self sabotage, helping writers overcome creative despair so they can finish and publish their work. She brings a master's degree in education, a lifetime, love of books, and over 20 years of experience as a writer, teacher, and mentor to her coaching practice. So, as you can tell writers, Erin has this very cool perspective on a lot of different things, and I am just really looking forward to this conversation. Because I would love to talk about specifically your work that you do to help neurodiverse writers. So perhaps maybe let's just start off so that everybody has some understanding of exactly what we're talking about here. When we say neurodiverse writers, what types of writers do you tend to work with?

Erin Michelle Gibes: That is a really good question. And the answer is, as I have a few different answers. So first, most of the writers I work with have an Adhd diagnosis, but not all of them. An important thing to understand about Adhd, specifically, is that a lot of the the the symptoms and the things that you experience as a person with person with Adhd are also common in having, you know in other types of neurodiversity, but also in other types of you know, situations that people who are neurotypical can be in. You know, for example, you might, if you are a new parent, you might be experiencing some executive dysfunction. If you are entering menopause, if you have long covid so executive dysfunction is sort of an umbrella term that you might use that covers. You know there are a lot of different types of executive dysfunction, but there are a lot of reasons why a person might be experiencing executive dysfunction. But if you have Adhd specifically, then there is going to be a different root cause for that executive dysfunction. But in practice, a lot of the techniques that I might use to help a writer who has Adhd might be really similar to the techniques I might use to help a writer who's a brand new mom. So there's some intersection there. But the underlying causes are going to be different. Which is interesting. Because that's another reason why Adhd, specifically can be so difficult is because, you know, the types of challenges you might have can be the types of things that people who are neurotypical experience from time to time. But someone with Adhd, it's going to be like those normal neurotypical experiences times 10 or times a hundred. Right? It's gonna be a lot more extreme version. And so I can get into that a little bit more later. But that sort of comparison of yourself to more typical people can be a root cause of a bunch of other problems that you end up experiencing as a writer. So I'll kind of stop there. But then the other thing I wanted to say about that briefly, is that today I'm going to talk mostly about Adhd, because that's my diagnosis and my experience. And I want to focus mainly mostly on my own lived experience rather than getting too much into, you know. I mean, I've been a new parent as well. That's a whole other thing. But you know, just to kind of focus on that focus. My own lived experience, focus on my own lived experience today when I'm answering these questions for you to kind of, you know, not speak to anyone else's experiences with other types of neurodiversity, or with other types of reasons for having executive dysfunction. If that makes sense.

Sara Gentry: Right. Yeah, it does make a lot of sense, because I mean, I appreciate the distinction between something like an ADHD diagnosis like that's going to be for your whole life. It's not like you're having an acute case of ADHD or something.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Right. I mean yes.

Sara Gentry: Going to go, whereas, like the new parent thing is likely going to be a phase unless other things come out of that that might cause further executive dysfunction. But that's a really good distinction. So let's talk now specifically about the Adhd side of things. And why, on the one hand, I think Adhd can offer itself to lots of wonderful things that can help writers, but certainly it can provide extra challenges, perhaps, that neurotypical writers would not be facing. So what kinds of challenges are you seeing either in yourself or with the writers that you work with, who have ADHD?

Erin Michelle Gibes: So you know, that's difficult to point to just one thing. I feel like you know, you give kind of a laundry list of symptoms and things like that. But I think I'm also gonna be glancing at my notes from time to time, because again, it's not all stored like automatically up here. But I think the way I want to kind of answer this question, the way I want to focus it is on the experience, like the general experience, both that I had as a writer, and a lot of writers who come to me, what their experience is. So I'm just gonna kind of describe that narratively to kind of help give you a picture of what that looks like. So it's usually someone who has written a manuscript or or written most of a manuscript often, but not always. They may have finished an Mfa program and written the manuscript or at least come up with a whole bunch of short fiction potentially within an Mfa program or some type of formal education. Or maybe they had a life experience that led them to just like power out this manuscript right? And they just in an adrenaline fueled hyper-focused, you know, intense storm of activity wrote this whole thing and then now they are not sure what to do next. They're rewriting and rewriting and rewriting. They're sitting down to work and not having any idea what to actually do when they sit down to work. They're like, I don't know if I'm done. I have no idea whether or not I'm done. Sometimes the manuscript is only, you know, maybe they power through 20,000 words, and then everything just ground to a halt. Maybe they have done that exact thing 10 times. Maybe they've written 10,000 words for 20 different books, right? And then everything sort of grinds to a halt, and everything feels confusing and overwhelming. And then the experience ends up being what the hell's wrong with me like? What? Why can't I do this? Why, can't you know? And they've tried tool after tool after craft, book after craft, book after workshop after workshop, and things will maybe work for a while, and they'll feel like, Oh, my, gosh, this is it like this is the thing? This is the thing that's gonna help me just do it right. I just need to just do it. And then it again works for well, and it stops working. And so you're on this cycle, right? It's like you're on this hamster wheel, and then at the end of it, every time you, you know, advance through the cycle again at the end of that cycle. It's like I must be doing something wrong. There must be something wrong with me. There must be like right. If you blame yourself, go, go into self blame right? And so there are so many different little, you know, things about, you know, executive dysfunction or emotional dysregulation, or, like all the little labels that we can apply to Adhd symptoms, but that lead you into this cycle. And so what I try to do is help break that cycle. And it's there's not one simple thing to do that I can explain like, how did that work? But the 1st thing is like understanding. There's nothing wrong with you at all. There is something wrong with this, the systems in place that were designed for neurotypical brains. To understand that your brain is different, and that those aren't gonna work for you. And you know. So I'll kind of stop there because I feel like I'm going off a little bit on a tangent. But it's like that picture of someone who is, you know, so frustrated because all the advice out there you know it again. Either it works for a little while, or it doesn't make any sense, or it just leads to more overwhelm. And then you start to feel like you're the problem, right? And you're not the problem. The problem is the systems that are in place. And no one's explaining to you how this actually works. When you actually sit down to write a book like this, step by step process of what you go and do right, or like how to break out of those cycles, or how to like tweak tools so that they work for you instead of making you feel like you're doing something wrong right every time. Right? So yeah.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, well, you mentioned the hyper-focus. And I, I remember specifically, on your website, that line has always caught my attention. You can't hyper focus a book. And I just think that's so interesting because, I mean, maybe if you are a full time author, like a career author, where it is your job 24/7 here to crank out books. Maybe you get the privilege of going away for a week or 2 to like crunch out something. But that is not the reality for most people. Even if they have, even if they are full time authors, most people will have other responsibilities besides cranking out the book. So.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Yeah. Well, and then the other thing about that is like on one hand. That's true. And you and I've talked about this like fantasy, and I still have it all the time. If I could just get a week alone in the woods right, I could just get this thing done. I felt like that last Thursday when I was like trying to work on my project. But the reality is a lot of us who have Adhd have relied on that process that hyper focus skill to power through things at the last minute, right? And to just get it done and just make it happen. And just. But the problem is, you can only do that so many times before you burn out. And there's always a cost to it. So hyper focus can be a cool skill to have on one hand. But the other hand is, if you're solely relying on that, you are, gonna burn out, even if you are spending multiple, even if it's your only responsibility, which that's nobody, I mean, even if you have no family and no like, you still have to like, I don't know, go to the Dmv. And stuff like you still have to do stuff. You still have life to live outside of writing the book, right? So it's not a sustainable practice literally for anyone. It can be almost like a bad habit that we slip into, because we don't know any other way to get something big and long and complicated, finished right? And so the potential for burnout is real, and it is always there. And so learning another way to not just, you know power through and lean into that hyper focus mode to learn other ways to approach a long project. It's really important, especially the older you get and the less hyper focus becomes an option, either because you're just getting older or because you have a family now, or because you have a different job now, or because you're taking care of aging parents, or like ailing pets, or like whatever it is like.

Sara Gentry: Yeah.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Not sustainable. And so you can instill this, you can instill the sense of panic once you realize, oh, I can't actually hyper focus things anymore. Or I can't help hyper focus this project or it worked for this book. What worked for this book, whatever it was, isn't working for this book, for example, this, this deep panic that sets in because it's like, I don't know how else to do this. I don't know of another way. And then the sort of that's where that despair comes in where it's like, I'm just never gonna be able to do this thing that I want to do, because the one tool I have that was working isn't working anymore. Right? So, but that's and that's not. That's not necessarily true. But it's easy to fall into that. If that's the one skill that you've been relying on to get things done right.

Sara Gentry: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh, that is just so very well said. Yeah. So okay, so with this in mind, writing a novel is something that takes a lot of time, even if you could crank out your 80,000 words in a week, and like get it done from that aspect in a short time. We know the book is not done at that point. So how do you help writers manage either like some strategies or some tips, or something for overseeing this process that can be very long, when your brain is going to be naturally opposed to wanting to hang out that long.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Yeah, there's so much of that. And this is, I want to bring that back to that story I told the beginning of, like the person who shows up and is like, I don't know what to do next, and that's a really common one, is I power this 80,000 word monster over the course of 2 weeks, or like at a writing retreat or something. And now I don't know what the hell to do next, or I hate it now I've done this, and now I hate it. I like hate it so much. I don't know what to do, but I've also torn because I want to finish it. And all of this the angst, that kind of goes along with all of that and so one of the things and again, it's hard to point to, you know there's not, I really want to be careful not to reduce it to like, you can't like life hack or like, you know, like like life, hacker or tip and trick your way through having Adhd, and for a long process, right? So I don't want to minimize the fact that, like what you just said, it's a complicated process. And there's not one thing that you can do or even 5 things that you can do to solve that process quickly, or for me to explain it quickly. But I do think there's a concept in a way that this is something I see that's missing from the conversation. A lot we talk about how to revise just in general, which is that there is more. There are multiple types of writing time. There are multiple types of revision time. So writing doesn't just consist of writing. You know this, too. It consists of daydreaming and planning and thinking about characters, and it consists of printing out manuscripts and reading them and editing. And it consists of you know, developmental editing strategies where you're looking at story structure. And all of this, those are all concepts. But they're all also really different ways of sitting down at a table and doing some work, right? So what I see happen often is, I see writers who have their, you know, 80,000 word monster, and what they do when they're revising is, they sit down, and they just read it over and over and over again, and so, and then they and then burnout sets in about halfway through, right, or maybe not halfway through, and then they go back, and then they set it aside because they're sick of it, and they come back to it. And so those 1st 20 pages get like Super Super clean, and then everything starts to fall apart later in the process. And so the 1st thing I usually do with writers is, I say, okay, let's talk about what you are doing with your time when you sit down to work. What literally exactly like, step by step, is that? What is it that you are doing with your time? And so we break down the process into like the smallest pieces and talk about. Okay? So you know. Well, I open it up to be like, what does your week look like? How much time are you spending? Are you able to spend 20 min per day? Do you have a couple of hours per week? You know. How long does it take. And then when you do that, are you printing out and right revising? Are you going through and revising? Do you have like a to do list of things that need to be fixed in the manuscript. Are you just trying to write? So what if what 1st of all, what are you even doing when you're revising? What are you? Let's talk about what you're doing 1st and then second, let's strategically plan your time. And let's strategically look at not only what are you going to actually sit down and be doing during this time, but how does it feel to do it. And so, like, I have a bunch of different revision techniques. You know, I lose. I use a lot of Jennie Nash's, but I also have others that I've collected along the way from different working with different writers and different, you know, workshops, and all of that. So more important than the technique itself is how? Especially if you have Adhd, how you feel about using it, because if you hate it and it feels like torture and busy work, you're not going to get it done. And so it's so important to look at. Okay. So let me just give you an example rather than talking about revision. Let's talk about just getting words down on the page for a writer who's trying to finish a manuscript. So this is a technique that I really like, which is, when you sit down to work, you block out a specific amount of time. I really like an hour. If you can get at least an hour. The whole sort of I think that if you have trouble context switching, which a lot of people with Adhd is like, if you're trying to do a bunch of different things during the day. I really like to have us, you know, at an absolute minimum. 30 min, but an hour, if possible. I will say, okay, you have 2 documents open. And these can be documents on your computer. Or they can be Doc, like physical like things that you're writing, and one is a free write space like a journal, but anything can go on, and the other is your project. So you always start with a free writing, whatever that can be it could be. I don't want to write. I don't want to write. I hate this. I feel, you know, groggy and tired. Today this book is making me angry. So it can be anything right, or you can just stare at it. But you are committed to being there in that space for that hour, or whatever it is. And your phone is off. Your Internet is, you know, closed your tab. All other tabs are closed. You don't have anything else to distract you. So you allow yourself to get a little bit bored, and you're alleviating the boredom by just like plinking away on this. If you don't feel like working for the whole hour. You don't work on the project, and that's okay. Cause. Then you got it done. You check it off on the list. It's finished. You, you know. You satisfied your requirement, for like working on the book today, you showed up right? It's done. It's checked off the list. But more often than not I find this to be true for myself, and I find it to be true for my writers. Eventually, you sort of write your way into the project. So you're like, you know, you're kind of thinking about it. I like to write to myself about it. I want this book to be about blah blah blah blah blah. I like to kind of come at it from like what I want the book to do, or the story to do, or whatever it is, and then I tend to sort of write myself into like, oh, wait! That's a scene that's a thing I can use. And I switch to the other document. So that's generative, though. So that's a really specific type of time. I'm not going to do any of that when I'm working on revision. Right? So if I'm working on revision, I might say, Okay, what I like to do with my writers often is like every 20,000 words we do a printout of the whole thing, and just kind of look at it. We're also often working from different types of outlines. And there are a lot of different types of outlines, so many types, right? You can't just do one. So I might say, Okay, we're gonna get your often. What I use is something called a what's on the page outline where we're just cataloging. We're making like an inventory list of what exists in the manuscript right now. So like that might be a type of outline. So I'm going to say, I want you to print out the manuscript, because I think there is something really important about the tangibility of like your physical pages, and you can hold it up, and it has heft and weight and like. So I'm a big advocate of that. I know not. Everybody likes to do it. But that's another thing we're like. I might ask you to try that. But if, as a writer, you're like Ew. No, I would never write. It's about how you feel. Right so. But about every 20,000 words to do a check in and revisit your outlines. It's generally what I recommend. But that's gonna look so so different. So we're gonna say, okay, this is your revision time. I want you to set aside an hour. I want you to print out the manuscript. I want you to have your outline ready to go. Or maybe you know I've had clients do a wall of sticky notes, or like you know, a note cards or poster board, or whatever. So whatever it is. But we're gonna talk through that process and we're going to go step by step. This is exactly what you're going to do, because one of the biggest challenges is, you know, someone who's neurotypical might be, you know, give you instructions that they think are actually pretty detailed like, I want you to go through this checklist of items. And I want you to address all of these issues with your manuscript right? And there's maybe they're pretty simple like, go in and look at all of your lines of dialogue and make sure you're using dialogue tags that make sure we understand who's speaking at all the time. Right? So something like that on a list of other items is just gonna be like incredibly overwhelming potentially to someone with Adhd, if all they have is the list. And so like sitting there with a list. And like, Okay, but what do I actually do. Where do I start like holding all that in your head is really difficult. So, breaking it down to like, you're going to sit down at your desk and you're gonna open this, and you're gonna print this out. And you're gonna have these things with you. And then you're gonna and if that sometimes becomes too overwhelming, we break it down even smaller. So that's the thing, I think. And it's really difficult to just do. a 1. Size fits all approach with that for me to just tell, like, whoever's listening to be like this is the thing that you can do right, because depending on your experiences over time with different methods, different classes, different instructors, different professors, different writers, different workshops. You're going to have had positive and negative experiences with a whole multitude of different tools. And so because that emotional component is so important, you have to feel good about what you're doing. And sometimes you know something that has worked for you that you felt great about has stopped working, and you need to come at it from a different angle. There's always multiple ways to do anything right. And so a big part of what I do is check in emotionally like, I have gotten folks coming to me who've worked with other coaches and editors before who have felt like you know, that person that they worked with is like this is the way to do it, and this is the best way to do it. And you're gonna experience the most success if you do it my way. Now, that may be true. And if that person was willing to try that method that they may. But if they've got big, huge emotional blocks in front of that, and they've tried something similar before, and it was a massive failure, and they felt really embarrassed or upset or like they, you know, with that method, it's never gonna work right. And all you've done is alienate them from their work even more. So so much of what I do is like, okay, let's keep all the options open. Let's look at all the different ways this one single thing can be accomplished. And let's find a way that makes you feel good about yourself and good about your work, and that results in you know, tangible, sustainable progress that you can feel good about. You know that you can come back to every week. A process doesn't. If a process only works for you once, when you're hyper focusing, it's not a sustainable process, right? So we have to find something that is sustainable over the course of time. So.

Sara Gentry: And be willing and be willing to change it if it stops working for you.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Exactly. And I think that's not always as much of a problem, because I think that the sort of excitement of something new often generates like, Oh, I'm gonna try this new thing. I'm so it tends to be more like the depression that results when that fun new shiny thing stopped being fun and shiny and new, and now they feel like there's nothing else that is out there that will ever be as fun as that thing was. But it doesn't work anymore. So it's like trying to find some sustainability, but also keeping open to understanding that what was sustainable in the past may no longer be sustainable in 6 months or something. And that that's okay, that that doesn't mean you're fundamentally broken, or your process is fundamentally broken. It just means you need to shake things up in order to keep yourself interested in project right? Like motivation.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, absolutely. So we've talked about some of the challenges. But I do want to acknowledge that there's some perks. I mean, right. There's always drawbacks with strengths, but I mean so I don't know if there's if there's things that neurodivergent writers do particularly well.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Well, so this is an interesting question, and I also want to be really careful with it.

Sara Gentry: Sure.

Erin Michelle Gibes: First of all, like, I think it's really important to acknowledge like. And this is something you know, I feel like I've heard out in the world as a human, not anything that I feel like you're saying, or that I feel like right like that is, you know automatically what people believe, but I think that you know I think I personally have encountered the the sort of attitude that it's like. Adhd is like this quirk, or it's like a personality trait.

Sara Gentry: Sure.

Erin Michelle Gibes: It's a behavioral issue. It's not a behavioral issue. And you can't be a little bit, ADHD. You're like, Oh, I'm so ADHD today. That's not a thing.

Sara Gentry: Like pregnant, right?

Erin Michelle Gibes: Or a little bit country, or a little bit rock and roll. That's not what this is right. And so it's like you can have a little bit of executive dysfunction that would be accurate to say, like I'm having, I'm struggling with that right now because of Xyz, or what have you? But with Adhd, you know, it's a neural neural developmental disorder, right? It means that your brain has not developed in the same way as neurotypical people. And like you were saying earlier, it's never going away. It's always a thing that you're gonna have to figure out a way to manage, and also to manage in a world that does not ever automatically accommodate you right? There's the accommodations are often accommodations that you end up having to make for yourself, and that can be really disheartening and really frustrating. And so I just want to acknowledge that, like while there are, I mean, I almost have there are sort of, I'm trying to think.

Sara Gentry: I guess I look at it from the perspective of like sometimes people who, for instance, I was telling you like, I'm a highly sensitive person, and sometimes that can be a real problem, because it can make it more difficult to like navigate some experiences that people other people might not have an issue with. And yet at other times, yeah. Yet at other times it can be a strength, because you might have a higher empathy for how someone might be feeling in a situation, or something like that. So I guess I see it more from that perspective, that because you have a different perspective on the world, or how life is. It. It just kind of gives you a unique look.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Well, that's really true, like, I wanna honor that, too, like that's absolutely true. It's like, it's a hard line to walk a little bit because it's like you want to acknowledge the fact that this potentially has caused a lot of pain and difficulty. And you know, discrimination. And you know, issues with your life, and then also acknowledge that it does make you know you unique, and that you do bring something unique to the table, that other. You know, neurotypical people may not be able to do or may see as a strength, and that you know, you can sometimes, I wanna say leverage. But I also want to say, like, you know, leveraging some of those unique abilities can also, there's always an energetic cost. So anyway, with that to say, though with that said, there is I'm trying to remember, I don't remember the exact term for it. I could look it up in a second. But just to kind of get on with the answer. There are people with Adhd, it's like because it's sort of like your brain is an open door, right? Someone who is neurotypical. It's not actually attention deficit. It's like attention being able to actually choose what your attention focuses on an inability to do that. It's attention regulation, not attention deficit, even though it's called attention deficit. It's about attention regulation. So that means it's like your brain is an open door all the time. Everything that wants to come in can come in, and it's coming in constantly, and it's always there. And so when that happens, you tend to get really good at identifying systems, really fast and identifying patterns. Yes, and you get also really good at if you have an Id Adhd diagnosis, chances are you've been told by multiple like teachers and people over your life like, Oh, my gosh! You're so creative! Oh, my gosh! How did you think of that? Wow! That's like a look that's such an interesting and unique connection to make right. And it's because everything's coming in all the time. And so you learn to just like, really, really quickly because you have to. And that can be such a strength for creative writing, right? Such a strength. And then any kind of creative writing, you know, you can think of creative metaphor. You can think of, create like unique metaphor, which is a huge like strength to have when you're trying to write. Fiction is you're trying to find metaphors that aren't cliche. Right? So that's a huge strength. And we talked about sensory. So like, not everyone with Adhd has sensory issues or is hypersensitive, but I very much am. I have a very quick story because it happened yesterday I bought a new shampoo I'd never used before and I washed my hair in the morning, and the smell was so strong I could not think of anything else for the rest of the day, and I felt like I was like in this cloud, and it was so distracting that I had to go to the store, buy new shampoo and wash my hair.

Sara Gentry: Yup, Yup, I have had that happen. Yeah.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Yes, and so like those sensory issues, can be super annoying. But it also means that when I have to write a scene where I have to include a lot of sensory detail. I have a wealth of experiences to draw from, because I experience all sensory issues. I think more intensely, probably, than the average person. So there's just a couple of examples of like, you know, ways that you can use the experiences that you've had to strengthen your work and to you know, yeah. And that makes, you know, unique and the the ideas and the things that you can come up with, or can be like, useful in your work, useful in your work, for sure.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, I certainly wanna encourage all the writers out there who fall in the neurodivergent umbrella, yeah, that I think that sometimes they might feel discouraged from writing their books because they think that they're, I don't know, like that this writing thing is beyond them, or something, or it's not for them or, you know it's not for their brain, and I hope that this conversation writers has, convinced you otherwise that the world wants your stories and needs, your perspective.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Yes, it's like 2 things, it's acknowledging, and then, therefore, being kind to yourself that this is real, that your experiences, your experiences of feeling like things are harder for you. That is real right. That is true. Things are harder for you because your brain works differently. That is true, and that is in no way affects your ability to create the things that you want to create, that you're driven to create, that you feel passionate about. You have to acknowledge what those limitations are, and the fact that they're real 1st and be just honest about them, and then also forgive yourself, for you know, maybe being placing heavy expectations on yourself to be something that you're not, or to like. Be able to do something that you can't do. Then, once you've done that, then you can get the right tools to help you achieve what you want to achieve. You want to get the tools and the strategies and surround yourself with the people who can help you do what it is that you are, you know, meant to do and driven to do, and again are passionate about. So it's like, it's kind of that. Yeah, it's a hard line to walk. But it's so important, because, like you said, the world does need your stories. You know it does. You have every right to be heard. You have every right to tell the story that you want to tell and in order to do that you need the right kind of support to do that right, you need to know what kind of support that you need. So you're not running on a hamster wheel trying to do things in a way that don't actually work for you.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, that's a perfect transition. Because I want to point our writers to find you. So where can people find you online?

Erin Michelle Gibes: Okay. So I'm not on social media. And that's a thing that you and I will talk about if we ever talk like those of you who are listening because I think that it is significantly. I don't want to get too much into it. I think people who are neurodiverse. But people with Adhd in particular, can struggle more with social media, taking away from your ability to pursue creative projects than a neural, typical person. So it's, I think, more dangerous for you. I'll just put that out there, not saying everybody needs to delete all our social media immediately. But it's something to think about. So I'm not on social media at all. Technically Linkedin. But that is like to me, the boringest thing ever. So it's not gonna put my attention away from my work. So technically, I have a Linkedin profile. But where you can find me is my website, which is erinwritesmagic.com. And then also on my website, there's a link to the top to the Adhd Ama. Which Adhd ask me anything. And this is a monthly call that I host for writers with Adhd, and you can either come, live to the call, or you can submit questions ahead of time that I will answer on the call. I limit it to 50 people. It's never reached 50 yet, but as long as just one person signs up every month. I show up, and I answer questions, and you know you get the benefit of my experience. But also the other folks who come on the call and their experiences as well. It's a safe space to talk about, you know whether you are neurodiverse just in general or whether you are experiencing executive dysfunction. But you don't have Adhd, you know you don't have to have like a little card to show your diagnosis to like show up to the calls for everybody. And so that's like the 1st way that you can work with me. And I can start helping. You know you find a community. I also work one on one with folks. But my schedule tends to fill up really fast. So that call is the one thing that every month. You can be sure that is there to help get you some support and answer your questions and help getting you on the right track to make sure that you have the right tools to write the book that, or stories, or whatever it is you're writing that you want to write.

Sara Gentry: Fabulous. All right writers, you've got to go connect with Erin here. And Erin, I just want to thank you for this amazing conversation. Informative, but I also think very helpful for a lot of writers. So thank you so much for your time.

Erin Michelle Gibes: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I love to talk about all this. Maybe you can tell. So thank you so much for the opportunity to be here with you.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, absolutely. All right, writers. Thanks for joining us, and we will catch you next time. Bye.