Video Transcript (computer generated - may contain errors)

Sara Gentry: Hey, writers, we have got Sharon Skinner here with us today. Hi Sharon!

Sharon Skinner: Hi! Thanks for having me.

Sara Gentry: And the reason why I've asked Sharon to join us here today is because Sharon is a wealth of information about writing speculative fiction, and she also coaches a lot of writers in speculative fiction. And that's what we're gonna dig into a bit here. But first let me introduce you to Sharon just a little bit more. Sharon has a BA. In English and an Ma. In creative writing, and she is a certified book, coach and freelance editor who helps writers weave their words into stories that shine. Sharon also serves as the regional advisor for the Scbwi Arizona, which is a division of the Society of children's book writers and illustrators. So, in addition to writing and coaching all the things in speculative fiction, Sharon also has experience working and writing with novels that go from middle grade, YA, adult, all the all the books and picture books. But we're not going to get into speculative fiction picture books here today. Maybe another time. So welcome, Sharon again, and thank you so much for joining us. I'm sure this is going to be a great conversation.

Sharon Skinner: Thanks, Sara. I always enjoy our conversations.

Sara Gentry: So we're gonna just dig right into this group of books just to clarify for the writers who are joining us. What are we going to consider under the umbrella of speculative fiction?

Sharon Skinner: So speculative fiction is, really, it covers a lot. It's a really big umbrella. It covers a lot. Everything from science fiction, fantasy, horror, anything where you can ask a question, what if? And build a world where things are different than it's not contemporary fiction. It's, you know, there's some sort of magic or science that's taking place that we are imagining. So it's really more imaginative realms.

Sara Gentry: That makes sense, something that's kind of pulling us out of the world, that we live in a bit. And one thing that is fascinating to me about speculative fiction is that writers of speculative fiction, boy, do they love planning and building their worlds and imagining all the things. And that's really what we're gonna focus on this conversation here today, because sometimes this is a good thing, and sometimes it is a bad thing for writers, because they they just get stuck. So why is it? Why is it that our speculative fiction writers are just caught in this hamster wheel, sometimes of planning and building, and doing all the things.

Sharon Skinner: Well, I think that one of the things that happens is that we get so enamored with our worlds and the worlds that we're building, and we get so into the details in the nitty gritty, which is great. It's good to know it's good to have a layered world. It's good to know the geography, I mean, even when you're writing contemporary fiction or a novel of any kind. You really need to know the lay of the land. What time of year it is, what you know, what are we operating under? Is, are we historical fiction where we have different methodologies of getting around. You know, how long does it take to get to the neighbor's house? But when you're writing speculative fiction, it's really more about. Well, okay, so do I have horses, or do I have some other kind of creature that we ride on? Do I have dragons that I can fly across the realm with? And how do I limit the abilities of my characters? Because if I have a magic system, I need to make it so that magic doesn't fix all the problems, because if magic can fix all the problems, then there's no story there, right? Because what happens is that you've got to have conflict. You've got to have a story. You've got to have characters go on a journey, but I think we sort of get so involved in trying to figure out all those components. And it can be fun. It's really fun to figure out, you know, what kind of magic system and who does what kind of magic and what kind of creatures populate our world, and what kind of races? And do I need another race of people in the next land over, so that we can have conflict there, or someplace to go, or you know, and it gets very involved. It can become very involved. And do I use standard plants and trees and things? Or do I make some up, or do I rename some of those medicinal herbs that we use, and, you know, contemporary society, that just to make them sound more in world, and that's a whole nother aspect of world building is making sure that the language that you use and the cliches that you've kind of used as placeholders get turned into world kinds of similes and metaphors, so that you really want to immerse your reader in the world, and unfortunately, because we really want to immerse our readers in the world. We can sort of get ourselves so immersed that we don't know when to come up, for when it's time to come up for air.

Sara Gentry: Yeah, no, I love that. And sometimes this counterintuitive thing happens where, if we think that we have more opportunity for creativity if we have less boundaries, but sometimes the opposite is true, and with speculative fiction it's like you, as the author, are establishing what the boundaries even are so it's like the world is your oyster. Do whatever whatever you want, and if you don't rein it in that creativity, I think, just starts to take over.

Sharon Skinner: Absolutely. So one of the things that I recommend is that, you know. Yes, world building is critically important. And you want to really establish a lot of those boundaries and those rules, and get somewhat immersed into it. But at some point you've got to come up for air, and you've got to figure out, you know. So who are the people in this world that we're going to engage with? What is? What are their goals? And what is this story that I want to tell? Yeah. So if you're coming at it from a world building at some point, you have to realize that. Okay, I've built enough of the world that I can do placeholders. As I go along through the story to go back and figure out. You know what's the historical reason that this exists in my world, or you might be writing along. And all of a sudden someone like me will say, Hey, you know because I do this a lot with my folks, you know. Feet and Miles are very contemporary and very real life. But how is it that your world, which is all full of magic and dragons and things, has decided to use feet and miles for distances. So can I, you know, or is there something else that you can use that we can understand and get a handle on? That's part of your world. So there's a lot to world building, and it is important. But at some point you got to tell the story.

Sara Gentry: Yes, yes. Okay. So let's maybe start moving in that direction here to help our writers. Because it sounds like there's going to be this fine line between needing to know enough, because you certainly I'm just guessing, don't want to start writing a fantasy completely. Hodgepodge. I know I just picked one of the genres there, but writing completely hodgepodge, and then, like halfway through the book, a new magic system, and then another part of the book. Oh, there's this new kingdom now, and like that becomes too disorienting and probably counterproductive for you as a writer. So it it seems like we want to have at least a little bit of planning in mind, but we don't want to get stuck there. So maybe let's start with like, what do you think would be the key pieces of information to know about whether it's your world or your story, your book, if you're writing in speculative fiction?

Sharon Skinner: So I think that the topography or the geography of where you're at, you know. Where are we? Are we on another planet? Are we in another realm? Are we portaling through to another time and place? You know we've got to know how we are, where we are. That's you've got to ground us in where we are. And then, if you're if it's science fiction and you are using a lot of hard science, then how are you going to convey to us how that science works? And if you're using a hand wave as your elemental or your your element of you know science, then we need to at least be given enough that we can suspend disbelief right to go along with it. We suspend a lot of disbelief in a lot of science fiction like Star Wars. You know that sort of thing. We love it, but we're willing to do that because we are engaged with the characters and the story we're on the journey. So the fact that you're having something bizarre happen that scientifically isn't possible, as far as we know doesn't bother me as much because I'm really here for the journey. I'm really here for the characters, right? So I think you know, knowing what your world is. And then, if you're doing any kind of magic or science, you need to know the boundaries of those you need to know the limitations and the rules around those to some extent. Now you might be writing, you know, have put some rules in place, and then be writing along and discover that. Oh, based on my current system, my character is too easily able to overcome this barrier. I want to put them in their place, so I may need to go back and adjust, because, remember, I say this a lot to my writers. We're not ancient Egyptians. We don't write in stone. Everything is malleable until it's published right. It's all malleable, it's all adjustable and revisable. So I think you just have to have a good idea of what the world looks like, and some of the social structure is important as well. Because why else are we there? You know we need to know what the journey is going to be for these characters what their goals are, and if you don't have any idea of what the world is like and what they might want because of their setup the situation, like political or social, or whatever it is. Then it's hard to write forward.

Sara Gentry: Right. So you keep mentioning the characters and their personal stories. So obviously, it's gonna be important, just like it would be for any novel that you have a firm grasp of who your character is, and what they want, and what they're working towards, and what's up against them, and things like that? Do you find whether for your personal process or with writers that you work with? Is it common to perhaps come up with a character 1st and put them in a world? Or do you find people more commonly create a world and put a character in it? I would be curious just to know how that works out for you generally.

Sharon Skinner: Well, I think it runs the gamut, and I think it really again, process is personal. You hear me say this all the time, and I think it depends on the writer. I have always been a character driven writer, and so I usually figure out who my characters are first, and then I discover the world with them a little bit. And then I realize, okay, this is, these are the things I need to know, and I'll make a map. But A lot of the writers who come to me are world builders. They've built these fabulous worlds, and they have these great ideas for what's in those worlds, and how they're peopled in general, and what they look like and what they feel like. But there's no story there they've put some characters into it, but there's no character arc there, because they don't know who their characters are well enough to go on this journey or to even know what the journey is going to look like. And so when we want to go into, it's like, if you go into a Disney ride like pirates of the Caribbean. Right? And you're exploring this world, and all you're seeing is the world that's fun for a few minutes, but you wouldn't want to do that for hours.

Sara Gentry: Let me tell you about that, because one time I was stuck in the Pirates of the Caribbean for like an hour with the, with the saloons and the fake gunshots going off. So I absolutely agree. I love the movie, love the ride, but I don't want to be stuck there.

Sharon Skinner: You don't want to be stuck there for hours in, you know, or even on a loop, right right? And and even the ride tells a bit of a story. You get to see some of a journey that you go on, but it's not very deep, and it's not very fulfilling.

Sara Gentry: Right.

Sharon Skinner: So like, I always say, going and reading a book or a novel is like going on a road trip. Who do you want to get in the car with? Yes, I want to look out the windows and see the scenery, and know where we are in the world and watch time pass and experience the weather, but I want to do it through that character. Everything I want to do is through that character. And who do you want to get in the car with and stay in the car with? And you know you want your readers to stay in the car. You don't want them to get out at the 1st rest stop, right. So apart from the world building. 

Sara Gentry: What key components of a story do you think are the most beneficial for specfic writers to figure out in advance, because, I mean, certainly people we know, people are plotters or pantsers, and there's a wide variability there. But it does seem like it would be beneficial, besides, just the world building to maybe know a few important pieces about my story before I start, you know, typing, or putting my pen to paper.

Sharon Skinner: So we are always making a point. And this is something we talk about a lot as coaches, and that is part of the Author Accelerator certification process is that we're always making a point. So what is your point? What point do you want to make? What? What kind of a story. Do you want to tell? What kind of a journey do you want to take us on? I think those are things that you have to really think about. And who are you going to have as your main character? Who is the driver of the story, the person that we're going to go on this journey with. I think it's really important to know those things. And what do they want? What are their goals? What is it that they really want? Because you can't really throw barriers in their way until you know what it is they want. And you also need to know why they want it, because that's the glue that sticks them to the journey. Is that motivation? What's motivating them to go on this journey in the 1st place, to go after what they want? And it's got to be really powerful motivation. There's got to be a reason why they're going. So those are some of the key things that I think you need to know, and those all fall under really under not all of them, but a majority of that falls under. Who is that character? And what is their story? You can get all the plot points you want out of that, because you just start throwing things at them, putting things in their way, and make them go over those obstacles.

Sara Gentry: Right. And I love the things that you've mentioned because those key components are universal across story. Like you would want to know all the things that you just said about character and motivation and point, and all of this stuff. Whether you were writing a fantasy or a historical fiction. So okay, so are there any dangers that you sometimes see? Let's flip it. Maybe the other way. If people we've talked a bit about, maybe not knowing enough. What are the dangers of dwelling too much in the land of planning? And at what point do we need to get our butts in gear?

Sharon Skinner: Yeah, never writing the story. I mean, I worked with an author at one point who had 3 binders full of planning years worth of stuff that he'd been working on, figuring out every little detail of who his characters were, what all of his fantasy realm looked like, all of the magic systems and all of it, and he'd never written a word yet. And he came to me. He came to my workshops and we got him moving on actually writing, but that the danger is being stuck in the loop. As you said, the hamster wheel where you just, you're kind of spinning, and you don't actually ever write the book. And I'm gonna quote Jane Yolan's 3 rules for writing. Number one. Write the book. Number 2, write the book. And number 3. Write the book. Those are the 3 rules from Jane Yolan that I quote her on that for writing a book. At some point you have to do the writing. And sometimes we feel intimidated and we feel unsure about. Well, what if I make a wrong decision? Well, here's the great thing. We're not writing in stone. You can't make a wrong decision. You can, always, because you can always revise it. So it's not really wrong. It's just what you thought you were going to do at the time. The direction you were heading in.

Sara Gentry: Yeah. And you never know. Maybe that will show up in a later book, later series, or something like that.

Sharon Skinner: When I do a plan for a book, if I do, when I do a blueprint and an inside outline, and I've got all of that kind of in place, I always remind myself, and I tell my right, my clients this all the time. It's like having a map that you get at Triple A. I want to go from California to New York, La. To New York City, and they will give you a direct route. But you're driving along, and you see there's something exciting. You know me. I like the ball of string example. There's the ball of string. I want to go see the giant ball of string, so take that journey, go see it, and if it fits in the story and it works, keep it, and if it doesn't, you have only gone a little way off the path. But you've probably learned something about your characters along the way, or maybe even about your world. That's important. Even if you don't keep the ball of string in there.

Sara Gentry: So, writers, you've heard us talk a bit here as part of this story development about the importance of having strong concept of characters and compelling characters. And Sharon actually has a great resource for this, Sharon. Could you tell us a bit about your compelling characters program.

Sharon Skinner: Absolutely. So one of my areas of genius, I'm just gonna own that, is character and character development and helping writers with character and character arc. And so I have been working for the last couple of years on taking a lot of what I do with my clients and turning it into a self paced course that is now available on teachable. It's called Keys to Creating Compelling Characters, and you can find my school. It's a book coaching by Sharon teachable. Or you can go at to my website bookcoachingbysharon, and there will be a page in the resources that will link you to the course. And right now I'm launching it. So it's a low $49 for the next 90 days. But I didn't really come here to sell. 

Sara Gentry: It’s a resource that I think will help a lot of writers. 

Sharon Skinner: It's very robust, and it has 5 main lessons on developing character. And it's all got worksheets and everything. So you're developing your characters as you go through the learning, and then it's got a bonus lesson to help you with your character arc for the book. So.

Sara Gentry: Great. And is this a program that's specifically for writers of speculative fiction? Or is it more encompassing across genres?

Sharon Skinner: It's usable across genres. It's great for anybody who is writing and wants to develop their characters and get to know their characters better, so that they don't fall flat. It's, you know, again. I'm a big believer that we want to get in the car with somebody who's at least interesting that we want to go on this journey with, even if they're not likable. Yeah, as long as we, you know can understand why they're on the journey, and why they make the decisions that they make, and knowing all of those things about your character before you really start writing about that character are really going to help you as you go along and develop your plot points as they journey through the world that you've built.

Sara Gentry: Yep, I 100% agree. So, Sharon, I just wanna thank you again so much for your time and for this conversation. I hope that it will help writers, especially those of you who are writing speculative fiction. Let's move along and let's get the writing done, as Sharon has said, so thank you so much for your time.

Sharon Skinner: Thanks for having me. This is always a lot of fun, and I encourage you all to just keep writing, and I wish you the best of luck in all your writing and publishing endeavors.

Sara Gentry: Awesome. Well, thank you, writers, we will see you next time. Bye.

Sharon Skinner: Bye.